Guest: Jason Roberts
Description: Just in time for the Holiday season, we sit down for a humbling discussion about being generous. In Canada right now, only about 18% of us report giving in our tax filings (The Giving Report, 2023). In 1990, that number was 29.5%. Researchers have even given this staggering statistic a moniker, “the Giving Gap”. With an incredibly unique story, Jason provides valuable insights about how we teach our children to be generous and why it matters. Chris gets uncomfortable (as usual!) reflecting back on raising his kids. Brittany is given new hope for her fellow young people.
Jason Roberts came out of the mess of addiction at 25 years old, when he checked into Wagner Hills, an addiction recovery facility in Langley, BC. He later began working with addicts through Community Builders at Christian Life Assembly. He spent some time in Hong Kong working with St Stephen’s Society and Jackie Pullinger. After moving back to the Lower Mainland, Jason ran the social work department at CLA. While he was back at CLA doors opened for him to speak to pastors in Russia about addiction treatment. He started helping and eventually moved to Russia to help build and train a team to run a treatment center outside of Moscow. After living 2 years in Russia, he came back to Canada and started Recovery Church where he pastored for 10 years. Jason then moved into the position of Men’s Campus Director at Wagner Hills Farm before becoming the current Executive Director of Wagner Hills. He is married to the most excellent Nicole Roberts and has Ali, Max and Zoe as his wonderful children.
More on Jason:
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jason-roberts-23398612a
As always, if you have any questions or feedback, we would love to hear from you: brittany.pilgrim@raymondjames.ca & chris.raper@raymondjames.ca
Thank you to Nathan Clark for composing our podcast music! He can be reached at nathancaclark@gmail.com.
Episode:
Jason: [00:00:00] Purpose is huge. Because if your purpose is to get really comfortable, that will continue to be empty. And you'll keep trying to fill it, but if your purpose is outside of that man, then it gives you something to go towards and to work towards.
Chris: Welcome to From Generation to Generation.
Brittany: We are Chris and Brittany, a boomer dad and a Gen Z daughter.
Chris: And this is a candid dad daughter podcast where all generations get to weigh in to discuss how wealth is actually a three-sided prism- character, intellect, and finance.
Brittany: Welcome to the Christmas episode! We're talking about generosity today, and giving, and we thought this would be a really important topic going into the holidays, and just something to talk about within our families, because Something we've discovered in prepping for this is that we didn't talk about this [00:01:00] a lot in our family when I was growing up.
Chris: And as I sit here today, I'm thinking that was a mistake.
Brittany: And it's not that you guys weren't generous, I'm sure, but you had the approach that you were very private about it, which I'm not sure actually helped us learn how to be generous, if that makes sense.
Chris: There's two points there you're right, we didn't talk much about it with you kids growing up, you know, in the early years, like when you were a child, I don't think we were actually that generous, so there wasn't a lot to talk about, but hopefully that's changed over the years. So, to be clear, I, I'm a little uncomfortable about the topic today, like most topics we cover because I don't want it to come across as, you know, you need to give more I really want to explore this topic as to what it does for us personally, and, you know,
Brittany: Like how it changes us, like how it shapes us, really.
Chris: Yes, and then by shaping us, how it's going to shape the generation that follows, and the [00:02:00] generations that follow after that. Yeah. That's really what I want to cover today.
Brittany: And it's interesting, I saw this quote that if your generation and soon to be my generation doesn't model this, if we don't model this behavior of generosity, you know, statistically people are getting less generous over the past 30 years. It's almost gone in half people who are, claiming on their tax returns charitable giving. So, if we don't model this, it will die out over time.
Chris: And then what does that do for our society? Exactly, you know, it means that the government's supposed to provide everything and the government is…
Brittany: All right. That's a whole other conversation. I think what's important to recognize here, and maybe why we're doing this as an episode, is just to be thoughtful about it, and also to recognize that it has to start in our family, and if we're not willing to share these kind of things with our kids, We're not going to be able pass [00:03:00] on the spirit of being generous. There's a certain vulnerability, I think, there.
Chris: There's no question, and there's two aspects of that generosity, right? Like, there's one that maybe is, the formal charitable giving, and then there's generosity amongst, people that come in and out of your life.
Brittany: Yeah, just blessing people.
Chris: Right. I've seen both and some people are more pro one way than the other way.
Brittany: There's some people struggle more with one side than the other because another thing we've talked about is everyone has some written code, some written conflict internally about being generous,
Chris: There's no question.
Brittany: And everyone's is different. And that's why I guess I say there's some vulnerability in this, that it's, it's a humbling discussion today.
Chris: It's really humbling. It's humbling. Well, even individually, I think it requires a lot of internal soul searching, if you will. Yeah, but I agree with you, like we have to share this amongst our [00:04:00] family.
Brittany: Yeah. Which is different from… how you used to approach this.
Chris: Oh, absolutely. I guess I've always been kind of anti-virtue-signaling, if you will. Right. But I'm not sure that being an alter private serves our family well.
Brittany: Yeah. I think that's where Jason is going to have a really special story and such a unique perspective.
Chris: I'm so looking forward to this. Yeah.
Brittany: Let's get into the episode. We're joined today by Jason Roberts and Jason came out of the mess of addiction at 25 years old when he checked into Wagner Hills, an addiction recovery facility in Langley, BC. He later began working with addicts through community builders at Christian Life Assembly. He spent some time in Hong Kong working with St. Stephen's Society and Jackie Pullinger. After moving back to the lower mainland, Jason ran the social work department at CLA. While he was back at CLA, doors opened for him to speak to pastors in Russia about addiction [00:05:00] treatment. He started helping and eventually moved to Russia to help build and train a team to run a treatment center outside of Moscow.
After living two years in Russia, he came back to Canada and started Recovery Church, where he pastored for ten years. Jason then moved into the position of Men's Campus Director at Wigner Hills Farm, before becoming the current Executive Director of Wigner Hills. He's married to the most excellent Nicole Roberts and has Allie, Max, and Zoe as his wonderful children.
Welcome, Jason. Thank you so much for being here on the podcast today.
Jason: Yeah, I'm so glad to be here.
Brittany: So that's quite a quick overview of your story, but it's, you have such a unique story that made an impression on both of us. So, I was wondering if we could just start there.
Jason: Yeah, for sure. I mean, my life changed in my mid twenties. I had, I had gotten involved as a teenager, I was getting in trouble and then I started using drugs at a. You know, in those, [00:06:00] in those high school years but I ended up graduating and, but over the next number of years, right until, yeah, like I said, my mid twenties, it just got darker and more dangerous and to the place where I…
I just, I didn't want to live anymore, and I thought the way out was going to be death. And so, when you get that hopeless, anyways, I ended up, I ended up having a, you know, wonderful family who cared for me and helped me get into, Wagner Hills farm. And that was a great place where I could stop using and start to think and heal. And get some growing in an environment that was safe and beautiful. And yeah, it had been, over 10 years of just running in this addiction, completely focused on myself. And I started to learn some things in this place that it was like, [00:07:00] Hey, there is a life without using and there is more to live for than yourself and those things that have gotten a hold of your life So right. Yeah.
Chris: Jason. I'm curious initially when you went to Wagner Hills did you go willingly or kind of kicking and screaming,
Jason: You know, I went willingly because I was at that place where, and you hear about people hitting that bottom, that lowest place. And I had been hitting that place for a number of months. And not really letting anyone know my family knew because I would disappear, but I had kept coming to, or, sobering up for long enough to realize, like, I just want out of this life and then something would happen.
Some drugs would come along. Friend would come along. And then I'd be right back into it. So really hitting that low, low place hard for a number of months that I was willing to go [00:08:00] anywhere, try anything. So, my mom, who was the one who really helped me into the place was very surprised.
And it's a different process than it is now. we would go like every day she would drive me out there or my dad would drive me out there and I would just spend the day working and deciding whether it was where I wanted to be. And within a few days of being there, I realized, okay, there's something here that I need and I'm, I'm going to give this a try.
Brittany: Yeah. And then fast forwarding a bit, I guess - you met your wife. Yeah. And you had three, children - three kids. Yeah. So how is this affected how you raised them then?
Jason: Yeah. Well, I guess, I mean, this was all I checked in there over 25 years ago. Right. And it was five years before I married Nicole. And then raising kids, I think, I think you'll find with a lot of people who end up doing this recovery [00:09:00] journey is their life changes so, drastically and quite quickly,
Your whole life has been based on, feeding yourself with whatever medication you're using, and then you take that out and that part changes rapidly - you almost feel like a different person. So, you talk about your old life and there is quite a bit of healing in being able to be transparent. quite often when you're new in recovery, you aren't even doing that appropriately or with the right people.
Like, I mean, I just was… But I think you, you grow, and you learn to mellow that out, but you do share rather transparently, I do.
I always carried on with that with my kids in sharing with them pretty much everything. And for Nicole and I to share with them about giving was really huge because it was part of the big life change. you almost go to an opposite shift.
Like you were someone who was robbing and stealing and [00:10:00] all about yourself and getting what you wanted to someone who's learning that one of the principles to getting better is making your life not about yourself and giving back. Like it's right in the 12 steps, I'm not a huge 12 step guy, but when I look at the 12 steps, it's actually, it's actually just how we should all be living.
We should be real and humble about who we are. We should be dealing with our junk. And we should be giving a life with that gives back and helps other people come out of whatever it was you were in. Yeah. So, in that, the giving principle was, was something real and it's just something that we shared with our kids.
So, as we work through. What we were doing with our money and who we were called to give to, or who we felt like when there was a cause or something that really spoke to us, we'd share with them the fact that we're gonna, we're gonna give to this. And it was impactful for them.
Chris: So, I'm [00:11:00] hearing there was a full 180 in terms of, it's not all about me, it's about my impact on this world.
Jason: Yeah, I mean, it was all kinds of drugs, but eventually it led to heroin, which just, you know, like you're, you physically need it. and then to change. you're purpose for living, so you're not living for that anymore.
You're, you're living and whatever that may be for - I’ve seen different things change people whether it's holding their first kid for the first time, and they go, okay, I need to, I need to get it together. We see these different reasons all the time.
Brittany: Am I correct in assuming that some of your work throughout your life has, you've done a lot of work that involves fundraising, is that right? And your salary for all intents and purposes over these last 15, 20 years have really been, dependent upon generosity of others. Yeah, that's true. Correct? Yeah.
Jason: It's always, felt[00:12:00] that way. But I think my approach to it is really my compensation doesn't, come into any of the driving force because I could go and do something else. I could go work here to me.
You're representing a cause that's so awesome and so important. And there's, there's lots of them. because I get to work with the executive directors of many different places. And my wife and I, we get to support other places. so, I think, I think anyone who's in this industry you are dependent on the people who are supporting it, but quite often they're investing in you as well. You find out they're believing and trusting in you as a person and your family, they see that you've done good work and they want to keep being involved, which is great.
Brittany: So, what was that like with your kids? Do you talk to your kids about fundraising?
Jason: Yeah, we would, talk. I mean, I think quite often parents will probably talk in front of their kids about their work. Right. And what they do and some of the interesting things that happen.
Yeah. [00:13:00] So you're, I'm naturally doing that. Yes. And sometimes I do it more freely because the kids know family who are involved and it's exciting to hear it. So, they hear some of those stories of, help. But also just in our own personal giving,
We got set on - hey, we're going to give this amount as, as the year goes on, we're giving this percentage away, so we would teach the kids that this is what we're doing and this is the amount that we give and it's gone up over the years we went from this percentage to this percentage but there's gifts above that.
So where, is our heart being pulled? Where are we being talked to? Where have we gone to something and heard about a cause that we can give to? Or even someone that we've known that isn't even part of a cause, someone who needs a vehicle, you know, something like that. I just always felt it was so important.
And Nicole did too, where, where we would talk in front of the kids and draw them into the conversation and say, this is what we need to do for this person. This is why this is [00:14:00] how we don't even know, like, it doesn't make sense to do this. We're really stretching ourselves to do this. And this is why things might look a little bit different as we do this, you know,
Brittany: That's a rarity. Like that's not common.
Chris: Just listening to you speak Jason and reflecting back on, when the girls were teenagers in our household, we never had those conversations in front of the kids probably regretfully so at this stage, but it's not too late.
Brittany: Yeah, so I'm curious when you say that, in being so open with Your kids and inviting them into these conversations What have you seen in them as a result of that or what's their response in that?
Chris: And just for clarity, can we get the age of the children?
Jason: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my kids are now 17 and 15,
Chris: Just going through the really formidable years.
Jason: Yeah, it's good. I think that they've all learned [00:15:00] to. Give like giving as a part of their life now whether they decide to keep doing that And whether the principles that we've instilled they hold on to those and say okay this is important to me but I think what's happened is, is that they've been raised in a way that it's like, that is part of what you do with the money that you make you give back.
Chris: That's beautiful because it sounds to me like that's just part of their DNA at this point.
Jason: Yeah. I think what I'm saying is, is I think that they'd have to make a decision to go against it now. Instead of making a decision to do it. Right. So that's an, that's an interesting.
Chris: So, so Jason, I have a theory and I'd like to get your take on it. practice. of generosity will lead you to an abundance mindset and conversely if you're tight fisted with the wealth that you have, be it large or small, that you're going to go [00:16:00] down a road of scarcity mindset.
Jason: Yeah. I, I think it's interesting that when you start to give, even if you've got very little it does set you up in a way that that's, what you do. And I've gotten to work with a lot of wonderful friends over the years that I've tried to share the principle of, you know, this is where I started with giving, and this is.
And quite often there is a mindset of, well, I don't have enough to give. Right. And I, and I'm like, well, I had nothing very, very little to start giving, but it was just giving this little piece that actually. It became a principle and a habit in my life, so I've seen that over and over again with wonderful people, but it seems to be a trap where it's like, you know, I'm going to get to this point and then I'm going to start giving.
Well, they've gotten to that point, and they've never been able to start giving cause they're going to get to the next point. Right.
Chris: Reminds [00:17:00] me of the horizon effect. If I could only get to there, then, I'm going to start doing X. Yeah, but when you get there, the horizon is exactly the same distance away as it was, you know, the last time you thought about that.
Jason: Well, I think, Nicole and I saw it earlier in our marriage too, there were times where for some reason our giving didn't get done right away. And then you're getting later into the weeks or the month you're getting later in and you, you realize, oh, we missed.
And by then it gets harder. so, I've always just encouraged people to like, just give right off the top because it puts you in a better place of trusting that that giving. Is that principle of giving like there is a, hey, we're going to, so into this, like some of this doesn't make sense, but we do it right at the beginning of the month and we, were always looked after sometimes miraculously sometimes, you know, and it's not a [00:18:00] legalistic thing.
Because I know that there's grace. I know that we're, but for me, it's just. It's just really important. This has been one of the principles that has blessed and guided our lives. So yeah, let's make sure we are on it.
Brittany: Sounds like it's almost like to have that, that mindset of generosity. It's about having purpose for your finances beyond yourself.
Jason: Purpose is huge. Yeah. Right. Because if your purpose is to get really comfortable, yeah. that'll continue to be empty. Yeah. That will continue to be empty. And you'll keep trying to fill it, but if your purpose is outside of that man, then, then it gives you something to, to go towards and to work towards and to you know, so…
Brittany: Just curious if, you know, sometimes I think a hesitation can be a mistrust of, of where it's going. And, and I think especially, unfortunately when there's more money involved, sometimes people [00:19:00] might bring in a bit of a power dynamic.
Does that ever happen?
Jason: Yeah, it's true. I can remember a couple of years ago where someone gave a check for a million dollars, and it was a great gift and we needed it. And I received that on a Friday and over the weekend I couldn't settle. so Monday I made an appointment with them and handed the check back because if you feel like you're compromising or there's strings attached That's been something that I know has made us successful is that we just haven't done that.
So, to give that back was, really challenging. And then they ended up giving it back and just saying, hey, we trust you. Thank you for even making the appointment and giving that, that spoke to them quite a ways.
Brittany: I'm curious Do you think we're a generous generation right now?
Jason: I don't know. I think the deliberate teaching. Has to happen, you know, like I, when you guys asked me about my own family and how we've done it [00:20:00] I'm surprised because I feel like this is probably how it is as far as People just assume even parents assume right like Chris you were saying you I think it's, we're coming on Christmas and everybody knows how their family works.
Like, okay, we're going to come, and we have this dinner here and then we go over here and then we do this at this dinner and every year we, we play this game around the Christmas. So, there's all these things that we're, that we do. And I think with parents, unless they've, unless they've actually said behind the reasons for giving, they just maybe assume that.
We've always been a family that's given our kids are going to give that one has to be a lot more deliberate, I think. and it can be hard too, if it's, not done by the parents and it's left to other teachers, people are going to always question the motive.
So, I think to, to be able to be parents who are [00:21:00] teaching the kids instead of leaving it to someone else. Cause it's, it's a big task to break through… Whereas if they've seen their parents doing it and learned….
Brittany: And I think that's maybe the trap that you fell into of, we’ve been giving, we've been generous. So, our kids will do the same. But there wasn't that kind of deliberate conversation.
Chris: I can tell you, yeah, I can tell you, guilty. You know, we just didn't talk about it around the kids.
And, you know, so it was, it was really, Mom and dad, you know, meeting behind closed doors to make those decisions as opposed to family dinner table discussion.
Brittany: And I'm curious what the fear was, or maybe it wasn't fear, but what, the reason, why you kept it private.
Jason: If I can jump in, I wonder how much of it's traditional because I look at my parents, I look at my wife's parents, I look at the whole family and they just didn't talk about money.
It's something we don't talk about. And we don't, yeah, which is surprising that it [00:22:00] translated over to even with their own kids. Like I can understand more. Why you, don't do it as part of your social interaction because it's just, you've got, that's weird. You've got private stuff you've got, but I think that that attitude maybe wasn't even that thought of.
And it's like, no, we just don't do that. So even with the kids and then it. And then it gets assumed, the assumption is our kids have lived in a family where we've always given. Yeah, they'll get it. So, they're just gonna know to do that. Yeah, they'll get it. They're just gonna have watched that. But without, without going deep into the reasons of why, why we give the thinking behind it.
I just think that's really important.
Brittany: And then also like, I think it's so amazing that you were able to highlight it, the difference it made in your life to your kids. Like they, they, they saw the journey of it.
So, what were your reasons?
Chris: I don't think, ignorance more than anything, I mean, I just, I can't give you an explanation for that.
Yeah. It's just it's just the [00:23:00] way we did it.
Brittany: But you thought you were doing the right thing.
Chris: Yes, I guess so, or maybe we just didn't think. Right. Period. You know. But now, you know, as a result of reflecting on some of this and we want to pass wealth from one generation to the next, I'm firmly believe that it's wealth of character.
That's the most important that we can pass. And then maybe intellect and in the end, maybe some money.
Jason: Well, it'll drive where the money goes, right? Exactly.
Brittany: So, another thing, when I reflect back on growing up, the lessons I was taught, I think a big thing that was important to you, dad, was this idea of hand up versus hand out. And I'm curious how that has changed for you, maybe, or not changed for you,
Chris: Well, I'm really curious about Jason's thoughts on this because I guess my reflection on that is I didn't want to be the aider and [00:24:00] abetter of the current pattern.
Brittany: So, what does that mean?
Chris: Well, I was always a lot more interested in microloans to entrepreneurs then just handing out money for people to eat - that may sound cruel, but that, that really was my thinking behind it. On one hand, I'm perpetuating the poverty by just handing out, and sometimes that's necessary disasters, natural disasters, that sort of thing. I want it to be involved in organizations that could potentially help people up and then once that generation has succeeded, you can step back and go on to another project.
So, I'm curious on Where you stand on that hand out versus hand up.
Jason: You know, I think it's really important that if what the place needs is a handout, then that's good. But say it because some, some actually do like the, the end result isn't, we're going to see this person's [00:25:00] life change and they're going to go to university.
And this is, you know, sometimes it is going to be, we're just going to love this person, and this is how it is.
But I do believe that. it's people's hearts giving because even in your giving, like there's times where you're going to give to something and it's, it's not going to go the way that you thought. but you gave that gift now, will you give there again? I don't know,
Chris: So, it does call for some discernment. Yeah.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, it does. and I'm also not, you know, People do just need to be saying this ministry or the giving to this place is a handout.
That is our, point. And to me, I've been like, man. If you had just presented it that way, I'd be happy giving, but you're presenting something else when really this is a noble cause to, you know, you're trying to appeal to donors about this big change. And what you need to be doing is you need to be appealing to people whose heart understand this, and this is what their [00:26:00] heart will go towards because they do want to help, they do want to help people.
In that neighborhood, in the, on the street, you know, and just understand, hey, our mission is, is really loving these people.
Brittany: I've seen the change in you a bit over the years of, of you've been able to see more value in that, that noble cause of a handout, like that has a place in this world.
But I just really remember growing up, it was, you were much more black and white about it then.
Chris: Yeah, well, I find myself getting much grayer in my older years. In many ways.
Brittany: But I think it probably instilled some, not like a fear maybe, but Maybe a hesitancy in myself to give a handout because I kind of have the script from you running in my head about it And I and I don't think I'm unique in that like I think a lot of people sometimes Struggle giving when we end at the it's that's just what you said like we can't actually know what's gonna [00:27:00] happen We give trusting that someone will do something good with it, right?
But there's no way for us to know and yet that shouldn't stop us.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, that's why being able to articulate the mission and vision of a place for the ministry that I represent it, it is it is more of a hand up, you know,
So, we draw those kinds of people so then we draw those kinds of donors, too They want to see those results and they believe in hard work but what ends up happening is, is it, it's a preference, you know,
I really feel for all the other ministries that are out there and I feel for the donors as well because they have to prayerfully figure out where they're giving their funds because there's a whole lot of us trying to do good work and our work isn't better than their work or, So I it's more than about your money.
It's about your heart. where would you want to give? What do you want to see? How do you want to [00:28:00] get involved behind the scenes? You know, the volunteer piece, all of that. Like for, for a lot of people who have, wealth. And even people who don't, it's easier to give, to give money than to give their time, you know, that's my struggle.
It's harder for me to give my time than my money. I like, like, I think you get trained in giving and then it becomes a thing that you do where the sacrifice would be more to take. To take your energy. Yeah, to take your energy and your time and a night out and to actually go and just get in there.
Brittany: I think that's actually a really I'm gonna take that away from this but an interesting lesson for young people learning to be generous and learning to give is To know who you're giving to yeah and really make sure it's part of your heart, you know, and maybe that's why you were so dad, hand up because you do have that entrepreneur side to you and you love business.
And [00:29:00] you know, it was probably something that just really connected with who you were as a person.
Chris: I'm a strong believer in hard work. No question. Yeah.
Brittany: We covered that thoroughly, but yeah, so that, that's really interesting. And there's a place for everyone in that. You know, I know some people who will, like my mom in law, she will help anyone who walks into the room.
She just wants to help you, you know, and she would probably love to do that more than something you would do, dad, and that's an amazing, they're, yeah, they're all amazing gifts, you know, in different ways.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always used to think that people who came out of a life of addiction should be helping people in addiction.
that was more of a subconscious thought, but what changed is I watched, people get free from their life of addiction and then go volunteer and get passionate about something else. And I had seen such potential in them. I was trying to get them involved, working with [00:30:00] me.
And then I saw them go and flourish somewhere else. That is so cool. It was learning for me to be able to go, Oh, wow. just because this is where you came from, doesn't mean you have to go back to that at all.
Chris: So, you've worked with some of the wealthiest people. And I'm curious if you've noticed any patterns of which ones are the happiest.
Jason: Yeah, I'd say I believe the ones that are happiest and healthiest are the ones that don't see the wealth as their own, you know, like they don't see it as something that I've accomplished this for my purpose and means. The accomplishment part is, pretty cool because they've done some pretty amazing things.
Yeah. But it really is about building a better world Instead of building something for their family. Those are the ones that I've been pretty blown away by and they're just healthier. Yeah.
Brittany: Yeah, it's almost like to build a better life for your family. You have to build beyond Your family.
Yeah. [00:31:00]
Jason: Yeah, very much. So, I think there's a different kind of health that flows into a family as a by-product of Using your money to better and say okay. What's what is the purpose for this, how can I? How can I pour back in and make things better?
Brittany: dad, with your clientele, have you experienced them being very generous? Like, is that common? Not necessarily your clients, but the clientele that you would serve.
Chris: I would, no, I can't say it's the norm.
I would say kind of like you, Jason, the happiest, most well-balanced families have made a conscious decision that this is not meant to feather the bed of the next generation.
It's really about. What's the impact we can have on the world. Yeah. And it's not to say that those families haven't made it a little bit easier, [00:32:00] maybe they've helped them gain some intellectual wealth by better schools or that sort of thing.
Brittany: Yeah. There's certainly a privilege that comes with that.
Chris: Yeah, there, there is a privilege and a freedom.
I would go back to Jason's comment, like they need purpose, they need to see purpose in what that money's going to do and that varies from family to family and, it's never the same, but it's always,
Brittany: I guess, is the beautiful thing. Yeah.
Chris: But it's always about trying to make the world a better place.
Jason: it's interesting too, because I think it's something that. it would be great to see it being handed on in a way that it doesn't get lost and then have to be found again. I've watched people come into their businesses are flourishing and they didn't grow up with a giving mindset.
So, here's an example. I went to a new, business and it's doing well they had me come in. They wanted to give a Christmas gift and it was a big deal for them. Hmm. But it wasn't that much, but they'd never given like this before.[00:33:00]
So, the, the gift from the heart was really special, right? Really special and really important not to downplay that. But it's something that you grow in. So that will probably be more the next year and more the next year. Whereas someone who I've met with whose family has just been getting like, that was a quick lunch and just saying, hey, we need to build a couple of chicken coops and they just give that amount, and it doesn't come.
In a big check and it doesn't come with the cameras going off, right? Because it's just been happening for many years.
Brittany: So, it's almost like it's a muscle.
Jason: Yeah. Well, that's, that's what I think. I mean, when I was saying I'm thankful for the struggle that, that I've had in my life, as far as how are we going to make it, we're still going to give all that because it, it, it is like a muscle.
The struggle actually builds muscle. Whereas… struggle emotionally and working through that builds a different kind of muscle where you're like, no, no, we've done this this is our [00:34:00] standard of what we give and also, we're just gonna have to trust It's gonna work.
Brittany: and I guess when you're if you develop that younger at a young age so for teaching our kids this, you're just setting them up for this to be easier for them really.
Jason: Yeah. And to miss out on it.
Brittany: Yeah. Versus having to learn this in your thirties or forties or whenever, 'cause that was kind of what happened,
Chris: or seventies
Brittany: to you. Yeah. Yeah. You, 'cause you didn't really start considering this to be important to your what, your thirties?
Chris: Yeah. Or even probably mid forties.
Brittany: And so, and I remember you saying it took you a while to kind of find your rhythm with it. Yes. Yeah, and probably as we've discussed today. You also had to work through some trust issues there.
Jason: Yeah, so yeah, I think I think to start even to be able to start small is pretty so if you hear this and You've already been thinking about it.
I just encourage people because I would never want to miss out and I was so thankful, you know, I was in recovery when it happened. I was in the midst of making [00:35:00] amends and paying people back, like phoning places that didn't even know, it was very confusing for people and like, Hey, you know, I, I, I did this and I'd like to, you know, and at the same time, I received a settlement for something that had happened in it.
It seemed like a lot at the time, maybe it was, a few thousand dollars or something. And that was a big test right then because I was like, okay. I'm going to do this. I'm going to take whatever percent, maybe 10 percent and give it at a time where my life is changing.
I'm learning new stuff, And so, its big life changing moment, but I, I'm, I'm just always so, so thankful for it.
Cause I saw. that really change my life and it kind of set me on that course where, you know, giving is huge. It's a big, it's a big, big deal.
Chris: Well, thanks for sharing that, Jason. Yeah. Full confession, when I started, I started at 1%. Okay. And the next year was 2 and 3 and [00:36:00] so forth. Okay.
Brittany: But then what a great opportunity you have. I say this as your child, which is weird, but objectively, what a great opportunity you have now to teach the next generation while they're starting out, you know, like I just got married and these are habits that we haven't set anything in stone.
Right. we're a little younger and fresher. We can work this muscle a little easier, maybe. And then pass that on.
Chris: Well, I think, yeah, Jason's call to action. Just start,
Brittany: just start,
Jason: Just start for me, for me, one, one thing that was really helpful though, was I don't want to be, you know, it's not a legal thing or it's not a rule or, but someone had suggested to me 10%, right?
And. that was a huge help because then it wasn't based on what I was feeling or where things were at. It was just like, no, that was the amount. And so, it set a standard that that I was able to build on from there. just, it's not, it's not based on [00:37:00] feelings or how things look, it was a set thing where it's like, no, we're going to become, we're going to be givers, and this is it.
So that was helpful.
Brittany: We kind of talked about that, dad, and I have, it's, it's like a mindset. And the mindset doesn't change based on your circumstances, right? Which is incredibly hard. Like that, you can't say that lightly.
Chris: Easy to say, easy to say, exactly…
Jason: But the practice does help because then you end up with experience that goes - oh no and then I believe it gets... It's easier because it just no practice becomes a habit that it's like, no, no, this is what we do. And so yeah, that experience is a huge help, but to start, yeah, yeah.
Brittany: I just am so grateful, Jason, that you would take the time to come and share with us here today. We are heading into the Christmas season, so blessings to you and your family. Thank you. Yeah. And blessings to your ministry [00:38:00] at Wagner Hills. Thank you. And just thank you for your candor today.
Jason: Yeah. Very welcome. It's an honor to be here. Yeah, thankful.
Brittany: Okay. And just a fun question to end. Yeah. What's your family's favorite Christmas tradition or yours?
Jason: You know, it's pretty traditional. I mean, my kids, if we mess with Christmas morning, we're in trouble.
So, it's just the usual. And then we've just got some great family get togethers. My, my wife's side of the family is. Is huge Mennonite clan and we just have a lot of fun and they, they just like to eat a lot of bread. So yeah, just fried dough, any, anything that, you know,
Brittany: Is there a favorite Christmas dish?
Jason: No, I mean, again, just the tradition, like we're turkey. Yeah, I know. What is, what does your family do?
Brittany: We do Turkey. Yeah. Yeah. Dad does a boneless. He debones the turkey.
Jason: Yeah. Okay. I know that I [00:39:00] know that someone in, married into your family who's like pierogies.
Brittany: Oh yeah. That's my new favorite Christmas tradition is the Christmas Eve steak and pierogi meal. Speaking of fried dough. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
Jason: You're so welcome.
Chris: So, thank you very much for being with us today. I'm Chris Raper. Aspira Wealth of Raymond James Limited. You can catch us at... aspirawealth.com and we are in the business of helping our clients live out their greatest aspirations. If that's something that intrigues you, please reach out.
Brittany: And a quick thank you to Nathan Clark for composing our podcast music.
Chris: Go Nathan!
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