THE PILOT: STARTING WITH OUR FAMILY
Guests:
Ann and Harold Raper
Description:
To start the podcast, we wanted to check in with our own family. In this pilot, we sit down with Ann and Harold - Chris's 88- and 92-year-old parents, aka Brittany's Grammy and Grandad. In a candid discussion between widespread generations, we unpack the experiences in our family and in our world today. Brittany had some humbling thoughts on how hard work was taught in our house, Harold highlighted some key differences on the economy now compared to his day, Ann had some wonderful insights on the unspeakable value of relationship and Chris tried to shine some light on how things will change for the young people of today.
From Generation to Generation is hosted by Chris Raper and Brittany Pilgrim. Chris Raper is Co-Founder, Portfolio Manager and Wealth Advisor at Aspira Wealth of Raymond James Ltd in Victoria BC. He is married to the backbone of the family, Arleen, and has two married adult daughters, Alexa and Brittany. Co-host and youngest daughter, Brittany is a marketing assistant by day and actor by night. She and her husband, Zech, are newly married and love being Aunty B and Uncle Z to Alexa and her husband's one-year-old, Willa.
As always, if you have any questions or feedback, we would love to hear from you :)
www.aspirawealth.com | brittany.pilgrim@raymondjames.ca | chris.raper@raymondjames.ca
We want to give a big thanks to Nathan Clark for composing our podcast music. He can be reached at nathancaclark@gmail.com.
Episode:
Brittany: / [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to From Generation to Generation. We're so excited that you're here. My name is Brittany.
Chris: And I'm Chris, and we are a boomer dad and a Gen Z daughter.
Brittany: Hosting dynamic duo.
And our focus here is on everything you cannot Google about family and wealth. And maybe more so for my age, there's some connotations that can come up around wealth, but we're really referencing something specific and it's kind of an adage that dad has. Do you want to explain it?
Chris: Sure. The framework we're talking about is wealth in three specific categories. We only get to pass three things in terms of wealth to the generations to come.
One is character, so things like honesty, integrity, that sort of thing. Two is intellect, the skills that we bring to the [00:01:00] marketplace, things that make us useful in the world. And three is the financial wealth, the money. And part of the thinking around this podcast was so much of my industry spends all their time and effort on the third aspect without ever addressing
Brittany: The first two.
Chris: The first two - the character and the intellect. And without character and intellect there's just no way in the world. , despite our best efforts, that the money will ever last.
Brittany: And even, at the end of the day, it's the character and intellect that matter the most.
Chris: Absolutely. Like, if I had to choose, you know, to pass to you and your sister and our grandchildren - between two of the three money wouldn't be on the list.
Brittany: . But something we're talking about here, too, is it's quite a daunting subject to think about how family ties in with money, ties in with, how you're raised
Chris: You know, I approach this with a little bit of apprehension. Okay. Maybe a lot of [00:02:00] apprehension and in deep humility. It's not that I've figured this out. No. This is an exploration of this subject that I hope is going to be helpful to all.
Brittany: And also like, there's a lot of these conversations that you and I haven't had.
Chris: Oh yes, I know.
Brittany: Or that, you know, even with my sister. These are conversations that's important for our family too.
Chris: Yes. Agreed.
Brittany: Which is part of the reason we have the guests that we have today. Because we're really treating this episode like a pilot episode. We wanted to start the podcast with really checking in with our own family. Where we're coming from. What's our backstory on this. What kind of stuff is our family dealing with?
Yeah, we're just hoping that this will set us up well for the rest of the podcast. So today's format will be a little bit different, but we'll get to that in a little bit.
Chris: Okay.
Brittany: So when we talk about why we're doing this , there are some personal reasons
Chris: [00:03:00] My personal motivation is really as I watch you and your sister grow up, and you're both married now, we now have a beautiful granddaughter, and these things become increasingly increasingly... Pertinent more pressing, as you still...
Brittany: is it something you thought about when we were growing up?
Chris: Oh, absolutely.
Brittany: But you think about it more now?
Chris: I don't know if I think about it more, but it applies to more people now.
Brittany: Hmm.
Chris: It just used to be you and your sister.
Brittany: Right
Chris: Now it's you,
Brittany: The family has grown.
Chris: Your sister, your husband's. And now Willa, our grandchild, and hopefully many more to come.
Brittany: Okay. That's a different podcast.
Chris: Planting a few seeds here.
Brittany: I think if I'm going to talk about why I maybe agreed to sign on to do this. It's so important to have candid conversations just about really family relationships and health.
[00:04:00] And even we've grown personally from doing that in our house, but especially when it comes to something like money, because I know a lot of people my age, it's something that their families never talk about. And it's up to them to learn it on their own, and I'm not saying that I was raised perfectly, like there's a reason we're doing this even, because we both want to learn and...
I would love for even just our family to get to a place where this is a really easy thing to talk about. And I would love to raise my kids that way. And I would love to have that in my marriage too.
Chris: And my experience has been that that's not the norm.
Brittany: Yeah. It even sounds lofty to say now. So, but I mean, you have to start somewhere, I guess.
Chris: Well, that's what this is about.
Brittany: Yeah. I want to know before we start, what is your personal hope out of this podcast for yourself.
[00:05:00] What do you hope to take away?
Chris: My hope for the podcast series is that I get pressed into new modes of thinking and action. Where I can improve the family dynamic around wealth in all its forms, and perhaps in some small way, impart some of that to other families.
Brittany: I hope to learn a lot myself. Something important to me I would like to take away is just having more language around this. Because I have found it so helpful in other areas of relationship that having a common language is so healthy and helpful. So I would love to be able to take that away from this and use it in my relationships with friends, my husband, our own family. And I think the only way we're going to get that is the more we talk about it.
Chris: Okay.
Brittany: And what's your hope for the listeners?
Chris: Well, that, you know, this podcast would [00:06:00] incentivize you to have some of these families discussions and think about the importance of all forms of wealth and, you know, what it might do for the next generation.
Brittany: Yeah. We're out here doing it. We hope you do it too. But yeah, I know I hope it would be a resource for people.
Chris: Yeah, I was saying to Joanne this morning, my partner at Aspira. I started thinking about this, thinking the audience for this podcast would be people my age or maybe a little bit older. And the more I think about it, I think it's the people your age, or maybe the millennials that might even benefit most because... Their children are in the formation years at this point. And so a lot of the issues we're going to talk about, some people my age will think, well it's too late. And I would challenge that notion. It's not too late for your kids. If you think it's too [00:07:00] late for your children. It's certainly not too late for your grandchildren. Yeah.
Brittany: I do want to mention something we've talked about as we've been dreaming about this podcast. It's our invitation to everyone listening, really.
And we kind of pulled this from... Really, me growing up. M y mom and dad are hosts. They love to host people. We had lots of dinners growing up with family and friends. And I always loved the moments when conversation maybe got a little deeper than was planned for, maybe there was some port involved, and there was important discussions going on, but also the kids were welcome to join in, I always found that really special. And I think it also created in me a sense of agency that I could be included in these conversations? I guess it's also how you know that you have good friends. Is when you can have those kind of conversations
Chris: Kind of when nothing's off the table.
Brittany: Yeah. Yeah Which is kind of what we're going for here...
Chris: Right. And it's not to say there wasn't [00:08:00] conflict sometimes.
Brittany: Oh, no, no, no there was yeah I think I also learned maybe my debating skills at those long dinners
Chris: So, let's see how this goes.
Brittany: Yeah, I guess so!
So that's kind of what this podcast is about. And in terms of structure, each episode we're going to have a new guest who we think adds value to a certain topic that relates to these issues. Really it's a loose, unscripted interview conversation format. This is all unscripted people probably caught on to that by now.
But yeah, we're just really trying to have genuine conversations with people we think have a unique perspective.
Chris: I'm looking forward to it.
Brittany: Yeah. I think we didn't do that bad.
Chris: Okay.
Brittany: I think we did okay..
Chris: I think there's a lot of editing.
Brittany: And with that, let's get into the episode.
[00:09:00] ****
Chris: We're back. And today it is my extreme pleasure to introduce some very special guests to me. My mother and father. Ann and Harold Raper, and just to give you a little context, my dear dad is 92 years of age and my mom is 88. So between the two of them, we've got 180 years of wisdom to be shared here today,
So welcome mom and dad.
Harold: How old did you say I was?
Chris: Ninety two.
Harold: I don't feel I'm that old.
Chris: That's good.
Harold: Yeah, nice to be here.
Brittany: Thank you for being here. We thought it would be really cool to have three generations in the studio. My Grammy and Grandad, they're coming all the way from New Brunswick, so it's very special that they're here with us.
Have either of you ever listened to a podcast?
Ann: Not really.
Harold: I did a couple of nights ago.
Brittany: When I asked you to be on this podcast?
Harold: That was my first one.
Brittany: I'm curious what either of you [00:10:00] think about the podcast that we're doing.
Ann: Well, I think it's going to be very interesting to see what you come up with in the end. Yes. When we get through with this.
Brittany: Do you think it's a good idea?
Harold: I think it's a good idea because it's perhaps gonna help some people in decisions that they will make in the future. Yeah. If somebody gets a value out of it that's, that's a good thing.
Brittany: Does it feel like a subject that's important to either of you?
Harold: Oh, I think so, yes.
Ann: Yeah. How our grandchildren were raised was always a concern of ours, and now our great grandchildren.
Brittany: , When it comes to these conversations around family and wealth, do you think your generation is maybe more private? Or even around just talking about money in the house?
Ann: Oh, definitely. I can't remember hardly any conversations about money in my early years.
Chris: Dad. Were your parents more private about money? Did, was there any family discussion about [00:11:00] money?
Harold: Well, really there, there wasn't, because there wasn't very much money to talk about when I was a, a small boy. My father was working perhaps one day a week in the mines. This is in the early depression.
I can recall going to get coal with my father to what they used to call the duff bank. It's where all the waste rock would be dumped out, hauled out of the mine and dumped. And in that trash there would be some bits of coal. We used to go there and sort through the rock and pick out the little pieces of coal.
If we got a bushel bag, that was enough to keep the stove going for a couple of days.
Brittany: For context for listeners, can you tell us what you did for work?
Harold: When I started working, I became a tinsmith
I worked hard. I was a hard worker. But eventually I saw that,[00:12:00] the long term wasn't very good for me.
Ann: There was no chance for advancement.
Harold: So, I managed to get into sales. And I eventually became the sales manager of the company.
Brittany: And so when you met Grammy, you were a Tinsmith.
Harold: Yeah, I was a tinsmith at the time that we,
Ann: We got married.
And between us we had $2,500 and we were gonna buy, build a house with it.
Harold: And we did build a house with it.
Brittany: Wow.
And Grammy, when you were younger, what were you doing for work?
Ann: I was working in my father's drugstore. Eventually I did take a course for filling prescriptions. But, I graduated from that the first of June and got married on the 15th, so I never really worked at it.
Harold: She couldn't resist me.
Brittany: So once you got married, did you stop working, Grammy?
Ann: No, I started having kids.
Brittany: That'll do it, hey.
Ann: Three of them in five years.
Chris: That's when the work really began.
Harold: Yeah, exactly. And that was part of the plan before we got married. When I was in [00:13:00] sales I was, I left on Monday morning and I never got back till Friday supper time.
Brittany: And what was that like, Grammy, for Granddad to be away so much?
Ann: Well, I got to be very self sufficient, I'll tell you that. Because I had these three kids, and if they had to go anywhere, I had to take the whole three of them. . It was fun, but I had a lot of help.
Harold: I never took up golf, because when I came home on Friday night, I stayed home all weekend.
Ann: Yeah, you did. Except in hunting and fishing season.
Harold: Well, that was something else. I was trying to provide food for the table.
Brittany: And so, my understanding is, while Grandad was away, Grammy, you were the money manager of the house, right?
Ann: Yeah, I started being the money manager when he went on the road. Right. I paid the bills, I had taken an accounting course at one point, and so I was able to do the books, and I used to... Do some of his books for his business as well.
Chris: So mom, tell us a little bit about , the apartment side.
Ann: The apartment [00:14:00] side was very important to us. It started out with one duplex and we ended up with what, 51 units? I did all the, all the banking and all that sort of thing. He did all the arguing for, ...
Harold: I did the management.
Ann: But the kids helped too, we always encouraged our kids to work.
Harold: And they, if they wanted something, they had to work for it.
It wasn't that we were mean, we were trying to teach them a little bit about economics. Right. And responsibility.
Chris: I remember , I would be about 16 or 17 at the time, and I had been cutting firewood and splitting it and peddling it around to neighbors and that sort of thing. And I made the comment one time, I wish I had six or seven cord of wood all cut and piled and ready to go to market this fall.
And my dad looked at me and he said, well, son, wishing's not going to make it happen.
Brittany: Well, it's interesting because I recount a lot of our growing up was focused on this [00:15:00] idea of hard work. That was the expectation of us. And I'm, it is both a blessing and sometimes a bit of a curse . It instilled a great resilience in us.
Like you're talking about granddad of, you know, if you want something you're going to work for it and it's up to you to make it happen. And I'm glad we have that. But there's also this other side of it where sometimes it felt like that was the only thing that was praised. If that makes sense.
Chris: Yeah, like I think your dad was guilty of maybe over emphasizing that to the point where if you're not super productive you're not going to be loved.
Is kind of what I regret out of that.
Brittany: It was almost like value and hard work. Your value came from your hard work.
Chris: Yeah. And yeah, I acknowledge
Harold: . I think that's a good description.
Brittany: What?
Harold: Value and work.
Brittany: You think someone's value comes from how hard they work?
Harold: Yes, I do. [00:16:00]
Brittany: So they're not a good person if they don't work hard?
Harold: Oh, I didn't say that.
Brittany: Okay. That's what I meant by it.
Harold: Well, I, I think that hard work makes your value... value your, what you have been doing, and I, I can never regret, ever, being mournful about working hard. I might have had to give up going to a movie or something, but working hard was always good for me, and for my family.
Ann: I think working, working to achieve something, and once you achieve something, it gives you a sense of real satisfaction and self esteem. It does so. If you, if you work and, and overcome something.
Brittany: So it's almost like having pride in your work.
Ann: Yes.
Brittany: Is more the right language for it maybe.
Harold: Yes. Yeah.
Chris: And, you know, when I think about that hard work has created me to be the person that I am be it good or bad. But without the hard [00:17:00] work, I wouldn't have had the blessing of the growth that comes with that and the internal growth, you know, both character and intellect.
And and that's something I, What I am deeply fearful is I do not want to deprive my children or my children's children of that experience. Because I think there's deep blessing in working hard, achieving something, and overcoming obstacles. I think that's how we grow.
Was there a time in your life, financially, when you really thought your back was against the wall and you didn't know how to, how you were gonna get out of this.
Harold: Back in 1980.... . interest rates at the bank were 20 percent, and your grandmother and I had a loan of 250, 000. That was a lot of money then. At the time that I got into taking that loan, the interest rates at the time were around 10 and 11 percent. The rates eventually came down, but if it hadn't been for [00:18:00] the income that I had... we would have lost everything. We would have lost everything.
Brittany: . It reminds me of what you were talking about the other day, Dad, of everything... cycles. is in a cycle. Yeah. Yeah.
What the interest rates might be today, or what the housing market might be today... will change.
Chris: Well, and you just think...
Brittany: It won't be what it was 60 years ago.
Chris: No, the patterns aren't going to be the same. The circumstances are always different, but the rhythms will rhyme. And the way humans react to them never changes in my view.
You know, when I think about what my mom and dad have witnessed in their lifetime my dad and somewhat my mom as well. were born into the depression the early 30s. And you know, times were still extremely tough through that. They entered a world war where most of the men in Canada went off to fight.
And you [00:19:00] know, you think about Kind of every cycle they've had to , fight through. You know, keeping up with inflation, interest rates were 8, but inflation was 12. Your money was shrinking all the time. And of course I've studied the historical cycles. There's just so much to be learned from history.
Brittany: When you did kind of explain the cyclical nature of things like that to me the other day, it actually was a great comfort to me, because we were talking about it in terms of the housing market. Right. Because, Especially, maybe my generation, having gone through the pandemic now, and looking at interest rates, looking at the housing market, things feel very daunting and huge.
But, Grammy and Grandad, you've had those high points of daunting and huge in your life, too.
Chris: And, and the cycle changed. Yeah. And it will change for you, too. Yeah. When I got out of university, the unemployment rate for people in my [00:20:00] age bracket, say sub 25, was 20%.
Yeah. There were no jobs. No jobs. And interest rates. We're probably 18, 19% if you could get a mortgage. But you needed a good job t o get the mortgage. To get the mortgage, yeah. And so, it was impossible to get into the housing market. Like it's impossible for you to get into the housing market.
Brittany: Yes, it's different, but Yeah.
Chris: Things changed. And things will change for you as well.
Brittany: What would be your advice to me and Zech? We're one year into marriage. And we're just at the very beginning.
Ann: To listen to one another. , you will have disagreements, but you'll get over them. You'll find a solution . And sometimes he's right, and sometimes you're right.
Harold: And be faithful to each other.
Ann: Yeah.
And gather up lots of good friends. Yeah.
Chris: That's an important one. Because this is one that I learned. from my mom and [00:21:00] dad as well. And I share this with many of my peers. Because men don't typically have a lot of close friends. Or most men have very few close friends.
Brittany: Specifically in your generation.
Chris: In my generation. And I watched my mom and dad. even to this day, continually develop younger friends. I believe that's why you're both with us today at this advanced age. Is that you've continued not only to develop younger friendships, but you've continued to pour into those communities.
Ann: We just find that we're so lucky to have younger friends
Chris: Have a purpose, continue to pour in. You're never done.
Brittany: community is really important.
Ann: Well, I was very fortunate I was able to go and visit relatives in England at the age of 11 with my father. And then two more summers I spent with my [00:22:00] Aunt Elsie. She affected me very much. Because she didn't have any children. She would have adopted me.
She showed me musical theatre. She sent me for dance lessons. We bought a dog together. We had fun. And I learned an awful lot from her. Just about how to enjoy life.
Brittany: That's really cool.
Chris: One of the things I remember, I think I was grade 7 or 8 was mom coming home from a parent teacher interview and I inquired to mom, I said, well, what did she say about me?
And mom thought for a minute and she said, well, she said, thought that you were pretty bright and you could do most anything that you applied yourself to. Then mom added the kicker, and I think she's right. And I still obviously live with that today. So there was a great encouragement, which I'm grateful for.
Harold: You're talking about the kicker. I've been living with this kicker for 68 years. And all through those 68 [00:23:00] years, she's encouraged me in whatever I wanted to do. When we got married, I was a tinsmith. And I decided that I wanted to go into something different, sales.
She encouraged me to do it. And at that time, I took a great reduction in my salary,
Then when I decided that I wanted to get into the real estate business, she encouraged me to, build this duplex. And the next year we built another duplex and it kept going
So, the person that supported me sits beside me, and we're still together.
Brittany: And so, you would say that the reason you've found the success that you have would be because you supported each other.
Harold: Yes.
Ann: Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: It really was illustrated when dad was saying he took a major financial haircut in pursuit of a better long term outcome. That delayed gratification is an [00:24:00] important lesson for all of us to take away in all forms, just not finances, but character and... you know, shortcuts destroy character. Endurance builds character. And I think that's true of intellect as well,
Brittany: And that's also a scary thing to do. Like, I imagine it was nerve wracking. Yeah.
Ann: Yeah, because at that time, that was when Chris was a baby. Pam wasn't even born then. And you know, we were just starting out. The house wasn't finished.
Brittany: What would be your financial advice to me and my sister? Like, people my age.
Ann: Don't ever spend more than you earn. And don't take on a whole load of debt. Unless you know you can repay it. That's good advice. Like we've never had a mortgage on a home.
Never. Never. Ever.
Brittany: I don't know if that's possible today.
Chris: No.
Harold: Yes, it is. [00:25:00]
Chris: I don't think it is possible today.
Ann: No, it's not possible today.
Chris: But, I think the point is.
Harold: It wasn't possible in our, almost everybody had a mortgage.
Ann: No, they didn't, dear. We were, in those days, we all built our own homes.
Chris: Credit wasn't available.
Ann: Well, we got some credit. Yeah. You know, we could get a loan.
Brittany: It's pretty unheard of today.
Chris: Yeah, it is and you know in the climate that you live in. Yeah, that's clearly never gonna ... but the points well taken Mom struck it right is don't take on a bunch of debt. You can't repay.
Brittany: I remember when Zech and I first got married, you lined out the different, what was it? It's the different areas where it's okay to take on debt..
Chris: Basically, it's okay to take on debt for, education but I say that with a grain of salt because less debt is a whole lot better than more and there's limits to it.
And I would only say take on debt for [00:26:00] education if you're sure that the education is gonna be able to enhance your income so you can pay it back. Too many people go to university to find themselves, I think. And end up with a pile of debt and really no better skills than when they went in. So I don't think that's productive.
And then yeah, in our economic reality today, to get into homeownership without being in debt is, is impossible.
Brittany: So education and housing. Yeah.
I'm curious, from all of the things we've discussed today, what would you say is the most important thing to leave to your kids and your grandkids?
Ann: I just hope they have good memories of us. Hmm. Worked on that one. Tried to. Yeah.
I know we'll all, we'll leave them some monetary, but that's not,
Harold: We hope that they will follow to some degree in our footsteps.[00:27:00] That they've learned something from us. Just the way we've been and the kind of characters we've been.
Chris: 20 years ago, I remember it was your desire to leave your children in an inheritance. And at that time, when you shared that with me, the connotation around it. I don't know if I had it right or not, was, was actual financial wealth.
I'm just curious as to why that was important to you.
Harold: Well, I was looking, I guess to give our, our family, The younger generation had a better start than I had, than we had.
Chris: Yeah, like what I'm hearing is and I don't think you're unique in this. I learned this even in the slums of India when I was there, is that I think most people want to give their children a little better start than they had.
Harold: But that's not only in, in money. That's also in Character. Yeah. And leadership.[00:28:00]
Brittany: So I guess the takeaway I'm getting is the markets, the economics will all change. , it's all cyclical. And in the meantime, yes, make smart decisions. But also, do what you're passionate about, and I'm hearing from Grammy and Grandad. Build a great life. Yeah. With a great community.
Chris: Thank you for the listeners for participating we hope you enjoyed this and we hope that you and your loved ones get some benefit out of it and until we're back, God bless and it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Mom and Dad.
Brittany: That's the end of today's episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. We hope that this has been valuable to you, and we are excited to continue these conversations with many more guests over many more episodes.
Chris: We look forward to connecting with you next time.
***
Chris: In terms of follow up, my name is Chris Raper. [00:29:00] I am a wealth advisor and portfolio manager, co-founder of Aspira Wealth of Raymond James Limited. We are all about helping others live out their life's greatest aspirations.
If you get a sense that we might be able to help you with that please reach out to us at aspirawealth.com.
Brittany: And if you found this insightful, we encourage you to send this on to your loved ones and continue the conversation within your own families. We also want to give a big shout out to Nathan Clark for composing our podcast music. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.
***
This podcast has been prepared by and expressed the opinions of Aspira Wealth and are not necessarily the opinions of Raymond James [00:30:00] Limited and Raymond James USA Limited. Statistics data and other information presented are from sources RJL and RJLU believes to be reliable, but their accuracy cannot be guaranteed. This podcast is for information purposes only and is not to be construed as an offer or solicitation for the sale or purchase of securities. Investors considering any investment should consult with their investment advisor to ensure that it is suitable for the investor's circumstances and risk tolerance before making any investment decision. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. Information provided in this podcast is general in nature and should not be construed as providing legal, accounting, and or tax advice. Should viewers have any specific questions and or issues in these areas, please consult your legal, tax, and or accounting advisor. RJL is a member of the Canadian Investor Protection Fund. Raymond James USA Limited, RJLU, is a member of FINRA slash SIPC. RJL and RJLU financial advisors may only transact business in provinces and or states where they are registered.
